TL report 04/04

[Lars]

Anche se mi sa che siamo in 2 ( io e galallyn :D ) a usare attivamente il necro nn solo per powware :D ( ho esperienza abbastanza lunga col necro derivante nn solo da qua in USA ma ma Vorticess :D ) , riporto il TL report del 22/04 , che delinia un po' le condizioni in cui siamo messi :

in RvR la situazione e' abbastanza sconsolante ...

Problemi generali:

-Il Pet nn puo' essere curato tramite mini dagli healer , il che ci condanna a morte certa se targettati sopratutto da caster avversari

-il controllo del pet e' deludente e impreciso ( e cio' si riflette anche sul LoS )

-la Queuing List e' organizzata malissimo ... moltissimi spell sovrascrivono altri spell ; il queque sistem per giunta rende il necromante assolutamente inadatto ad adattarsi a situazioni "dinamiche" , come durante scontri ( sopratutto medio-piccoli) : in media il tempo di rezione rispetto a un mago normale supera le 2 volte ( ora che si fa partire un quickcast , si e' gia' a terra morti )

-non possiamo usare proc , cariche , pozioni :gha: :gha: ( si commenta da solo :D )

Problemi legati all'equipaggiamento e bonus :

-I bonus TOA come cast speed / range / attack speed nn vengono passati al pet ( ma solo i bonus danno ) : gia' il pet e' lento ... se ci levano anche il fatto di potenziare eventualemnte la velocita' ....
-Tutti i bonus di agilita' nn sevono a nulla!!! pensare che il necro traina agi ... l'epica da' agi ... l'armatura sidi da' agi ... ma questo nn ha influsso sulla reattivita' del pet ( che ha la flemma di un vecchio rincoglionito !!! )

Problemi legati alle spell line :

-Deathservant nn sarebbe malissimo sulla carta peccato che gli spell sono del tutto sbilanciati come effetto/costo ... fatto sommato alla gia' citata lentezza di reazione del necro ( posizionare un pet per un pbaoe ha del comico... ) rende la linea non ancora all'altezza di vistamortale ...
-Painworking probabilemnte e' stato concepito mentre uno sviluppatore aveva un attacco di diarrea acuto , senno nn si spiega la sua totale inutilita'


Cosa e' stato fatto con la 1.69 e Frontiers ( almeno per quanto testato in questi gg ) ??

1.69
-Il problema del crowd control e' stato bypassato dandoci uno spell con casting time 15 sec per smezzare il pet ...
E' un po' na cazzata che risolve tutto e niente... fatto sta che cmq para il culo almeno nei grandi scontri ( diciamo che nn essendo i target principali degli avversari abbiamo il tempo di smezzarci :D :D )

Frontiers
apriro' un altro post a riguardo , cmq :
-in teoria il nuovo sistema teleport ci rende capaci di portarci dietro il pet ( in pratica 2 volte su 3 lo si perde lol )
-la nuova abilita' che si piglia come RR5 ( pet castabile in 3 sec ) risolverebbe in parte la nostra vulnerabilita' in mancanza/morte del pet

[Lars]

Riporto anche in inglese ( dove ci sono tutte le spiegazioni ) il TL report :

Riporto in inglese tutti i contenuti , dove i vari passi sono spiegati in maniera dettagliata ....

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1. Overview
The necromancer is a class of contradictions. Part fighter, part mage. Part player, mostly pet. Among the most popular classes, but strongly disliked by many. Fun and challenging for some, but too buggy for others. Recent changes plus a list of long-lived bugs have lead to significant player dissatisfaction. Chief among the issues are rapid armor decay, RvR survivability, and surprise changes. We look forward with optimism for helpful changes, and with some concern about reduced utility from adjustment of some class strengths and our ability to play effectively in a post-Frontiers game.


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2. Concerns


Top 4 issues are:

RvR survivability

RvR utility

Pet control

Unanticipated changes

2.1 RvR survivability
The necromancer is unbalanced in RvR. It may overpower a small melee group, or die quickly when legendary weapons are used. Casters can quickly kill the pet or cause it to suffer maximum duration CC effects. Unable to heal pet through the group panel spells also healing classes must choose between using more expensive groupheal/spreadheal spells or letting the necro fall in battle. The best necromancer’s casting delay is at least twice that of a typical well-equipped cloth caster.

2.2 RvR Utility
Necromancers are perceived as adding little to an RvR group and can have great difficulty in finding groups, and thus success.

2.3 Pet Control
Pet control is awkward at best. Pathing problems continue to result in deaths in PvE and RvR. Response to the “here” command is too slow. Erratic pet behavior after a “stay” mode kill can lead to aggro problems. The pet cannot be stopped from attacking a player in range if we cast a spell. The pet can be aggroed like a mob and will leave your selected target to engage its attacker/taunter. Despite clear caster LOS it can be very difficult to position the pet so that it has a valid LOS on target.

2.4 Spell Queuing
The spell queue system makes it very difficult for a necromancer to react to a dynamic situation. If a particular spell is to be cast, it can take up to 11 seconds just to start casting it. All spells and abilities in the spell queue can be overwritten by other spells or abilities. This can trigger the FP, spell or RA timers without ever producing the spell or RA effect.

2.5 PvE Utility and Group Interplay
With the exception of powerlevelling, necros are not commonly sought by groups. In PvE groups they are valued primarily for AF debuff, ABS buff, and power transfer to healers. All of these abilities are in the Deathsight line. Group members cannot perform some common tasks with necros in shade form. The pet cannot be selected and healed from the group window. Shield tanks cannot guard the pet. Fast casting requires a cleric to spend concentration to buff both the necro and pet.

2.6 Procs, charges and potions
The necromancers have been denied access to procs and charges in shade form for a long time. Now that our gear is being damaged, the procs should fire. Similarly we should have access to charges and potions.

2.7 Pet Summoning and Porting
The necromancer is without its pet, and helpless, for at least 20 seconds when he first logs on or ports. After going LD or logging in RvR or wandering mob zones the necro can face certain death upon relogging. So to when porting into certain dungeons. The Frontiers porting system is of obvious concern. [ SEMBREREBBE RISOLTO CON FRONTIERS ]

2.8 Unanticipated Changes to the Class
No issue has caused more frustration among the necros in the past few months than the introduction of changes without mention in patch notes, and sometimes without implementation on Pendragon.


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3. Spec Line Issues
3.1 General
1. The spec lines are unbalanced with over 90% of necro specced 44+ in deathsight. Sight necros solo very well with minimal downtime. This spec line is the most group-friendly.

2. All spec lines would benefit from improved group support tools.

3. The resist rate for lifetap and powertap spells appears to be higher than that of the DD spells of other classes. Taps are the primary attacks of the class.

4. We feel that our spec buffs are too weak to enhance their respective spec lines.

5. We would like of using different pets with different features such as attack speed, but due to the level cap restrictions only the abomination is survivable in RvR, or death servant play.

3.2 Deathsight
n/a

3.3 Death Servant
1. The servant necro is the class most affected by gear decay. This character will typically have prolonged melee with a high level mob, or pull groups of lower level mobs to its damage shield and PBAoE attack. This results in extremely fast gear decay, unlike true pet classes.

2. Due to poor pet defense the death servant spec line is very difficult to play without a group or cleric-bot. No class’s viability should be based on the assumed presence of a bot.

3. Our PBAoE spell does approximately 2/3 of normal PB damage with increased cast time and only marginally less power usage.

4. The shade cast DD spells do only 20% more damage than the deathsight lifetap while requiring twice the amount of power.

5. Our HoT spell doesnt last long enough or heal for enough to be considered a viable alternative to using lifetaps or even pure DDs.

6. We feel our damage shield's duration is too short to be adequately used in group situations due largely to the trouble of passing it through the queue in the middle of battle.

7. Power management can be difficult for servant necros. Unlike Deathsight necros they cannot count on powertaps to replenish power after a long fight, and like all necros they cannot use power potions.

3.4 Painworking
1. Painworking is a rareley played spec line, and is a weak secondary line. This line deals less damage and takes more time do so than the others while also having no means of self-defense, healing, or ranged attack.

2. The AoE snare's duration, especially after resists, is considered to be too short to be useful in most situations, especially since it breaks mez.


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4. New Issues

4.1 Item decay
Melee damage now degrades the necromancer’s gear. The necro class is a fighter-mage. It is designed to engage opponents toe-to-toe and has no ability to CC and kite. Thus a necromancer’s gear is far more damaged by killing 100 mobs than that of other casters. This issue is critical to Death Servant necros since this class kills primarily with PBAoE and melee attacks. Many players have simply stopped repairing gear. Others are forgoing artifacts. [ DOVEVA ESSERE RISOLTO NELLA 1.69 MA NADA ]

4.2 Attack from legendary weapons
Because of the 26% magic damage penalty of the pet vs a level 50 player, legendary weapons have a much larger impact on necros than other players.

4.3 Use of legendary weapons
The necro cannot fully employ legendary weapons.


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5. Item Issues
5.1 Quickness transfer
Quickness on gear does not transfer to the pet and improve swing speed. This has been reported since December 03, but has not been recognized in patch notes, or grab bag notes.

5.2 Useless stats on class-specific items
The necro epic cap has +quickness. The epic robe and entire Caer Sidi gear suite have useless procs.

5.3 Non-functioning ToA bonuses
The ToA casting speed, casting range, and attack speed bonuses do not transfer to the pet. ToA spell damage and duration effects do work as expected.



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6. Other Issues
6.1 Impossible or needlessly difficult quests and tasks
Many items cannot be used in shade mode. This was originally implemented for balance/exploit issues, but
1 distance-to-pet checks have been implemented for other abilities,
2 many items have little/no impact on class balance issues (used to trigger quest events, map items, readable scroll items), and
3 potion use requires 20 seconds of defenselessness and dropping buffs
The necromancer is effectively denied, or limited in, participation in some standard, ML and artifact quests.
Examples are:
Fall of the Emperor Quest
Jashan's Brother Artifact Quest
Master Level 6 Trial 5
The Lost Treasure Quest.


6.2 Personalizing appearance
Necromancers are completely unable to change the way they look. Besides being fun this would assist healers in selecting the correct abomination when several are present.

Female character’s are represented by the same shade and pet forms as male characters. At a minimum the top pet should have male and female forms.

6.3 User Interface
Third party UI mods have improved our understanding of pet status. The buffs and effects on the pet cannot be delved. The number of pet buffs and effects that can be displayed is too small to allow all positive and negative effects on the pet to be visible to the necro.

[Anywyn]

Ottimo riassunto Lars ... cmq la versione inglese riporta il 99,9% dei fastidiosissimi bug o problemi che il necro ha da una vita e che lo rendono un pg adatto solo al powerlevel ...e cmq anche in exp richiede parecchia attenzione dato ke il pet spesso e volentieri fa che cazzo gli pare.
Le cose che + mi infastidiscono sono:
-il degrado a dir poco allucinante dell'intero equip.
-il non poter usare pozze o oggetti (anche durante le quest) quando si e' in shade.
-la stupidita e la lentezza di reazione del pet.
-l'inutilita o la poca efficacia del 80% delle spell (a parte il mana tap e lo shade tap il resto funziona poco e mal)
-il quick cast ke se usato in melee viene sistematicamente bruciato dal pet.


Per me manco ci pensano a fixare tutta sta montagna di problemi ... sembra quasi che sta classe non esista :gha:

[Lars]

Per completare il quadro ( sarebbe meglio stikkare sto post almeno per far si' che chi vuole cominciare un necro sappia cosa si deve aspettare andando avanti ) , il BUG REPORT

BUG GENERALI

- a priori nn si puo' sapere se si e' in LoS ... si deve tentare il cast per vedere se il bersaglio e' raggiungibile ...il pet deve essere lasciato in passivo, senno parte per i cazzi suoi anche se il bersaglio nn e' visibile

-Velocita' di cast : il punto + dolente ... il necro e' il caster + lento del game
gli spell sono dai 2.5 ai 3 sec di cast ma richiedono almeno 3.25 sec ( se nn di + .... senza considerare situazioni concitate in cui si deve far ricorso a quickcast ) L'unica soluzione sarebbe essere full buffato...ma full buffare un pet nn e' il max ( se muore o si suicida come spesso accade , viene una sincope :D ) : i buff ad area della 1.69 hanno in parte migliorato la situazione , anche se la limitatezza dei buff , che sovrascrivono quelli di spec e nn stackano , di certo nn aiuta a ottenere risultati decenti...
fatto sta che ai 2 s di cast nn ci si arriva nemmeno pregando ... Troppo divario , anche se siamo caster ibridi , rispetto a un caster puro che arriva a castare anche in 0.8sec!!!!!

-gli istant nn sono dei veri e propri istant infatti passano per la queque list ( bug?! scelta voluta?! )

-Bonus di TOA in larga parte nn vengono passati al pet ( sicuramente anche per test personali , nn vengono passati cast speed e range ... tantomeno attackspeed )

-Il damage shield della linea DeathServant ( aparte che gia' dura solo 30 sec pd ) nn fa danno.... si parla di un 21.2dps ma nn pratica dal lv 24 al 44 nn cambia : ho sperimentato personalemnte su Frontiers che e' deprimentemente vero....


BUG RVR
C'e' solo l'imbarazzo della scelta ...
tra sempre i + gettonati :
-massima durata per tutti i CC [ vabbe tocca usare lo spell di desmezz .. che argina ma nn risolve il problema ]
-100% critici sul pet ... viene trattato come un mob e nn come un player di lv 44
- i debuff interrompono i cast ( nn sempre vero.... almeno da quanto verificato da me ) ... ovvimente un debuff in generale nn interompe il cast di un mago ...
-Il pet si becca 26% in + di danno da spell rispetto a un player lv 50 ... il 13% in + di un player lv 44!!!! :cry: :cry:
-il pet puo' essere confuso ( assurdo ..... )

[Lars]

Ecco il BUG REPORT in inglese

Appendix 1. Bug list

A1.1 General bugs
1. The necromancer cannot tell if the pet has proper LOS to the target until he attempts to cast. If LOS check fails then the spell fails, and pet must be quickly switched to passive to avoid its running off to engage.

2. Spells take power from the necro whether they are cast or not due to LOS check, and whether they are on valid targets or not.

3. Casting speed. The necromancer is the slowest caster in the game. Naked and unbuffed the most commonly cast RvR spells delve 3s, but require at least 3.25 seconds to cast. With max gear and buffs the time improves to perhaps 2.3 seconds. It is possible for an opponent to cast three PBAoE spells between two casts by a fast necro.

4. The pet must remain close to the necromancer to enable casting, but the pet cannot be controlled to stay within range.

5. All spells must process through the spell queue. There are no necro instant-cast spells.

6. ToA casting speed bonuses do not effect the most commonly cast spells. This is because these are pet-cast spells, and the speed bonus does not transfer to the pet.

7. Necro buffs on the pet are overwritten by buffs from other players. This happens even when the new buff is of a lower level than the original necro buff. Because pet buffs cannot be delved, it is not possible to tell, for example, if the pet has +48 dex buff from the necro, or a +40 dex buff from a level 47 cleric.

8. The death servant damage shield delivers almost no increase in damage from level 24 to 44 despite an almost 2:1 difference in delved DPS and power consumption.

9. As for other pet classes, certain group effects and spells work at long or unlimited range.

10. Racial resists do not transfer to the pet, although the pet is the necromancer.

11. The Cabalist spirit debuff doesn't work for necro spells.

12. The new sound effect for the spec lifetap is very loud and long. It makes it difficult for players to pick out the sound cues they have been used for timing FP. The spec lifetap is typically spammed while the necro waits for the FP timer to reset.

A1.2 RA and MA bugs
[VEDIAMO CON FRONTIERS SE RISOLVONO QUALCOSA]
1. Purge processes through the pet’s queue. Since the queue is stopped when the pet is mezzed or stunned, purge only works when it is not needed.

2. Several important RAs do not transfer to the pet, and are therefore useless to the necromancer. Among these are:
- Mastery of Concentration,
- Augmented strength/constitution/quickness/dexterity,
- Avoidance of Magic,
- Empty Mind,
- Toughness, and
- Regeneration.

3. Some important RAs fail to function at all. Among these are:
- Concentration, and
- Magestic Will

4. The 100 unit pet range limit for casting MAs negatively affects game play. This range is less than the normal follow distance of the pet at a walk, and when presented with the slightest of obstacles the pet may not close to that range when the necro stands still to cast.

5. When MAs fail to cast because the pet is out of range the MA timer is triggered as though it actually did cast. Similarly, if the necro attempts to cast an RA without first summoning a pet, the timer is triggered but the cast fails.

6. The bodyguard MA cannot guard the pet, so is useless.

7. Wild Arcana works, but the player receives no feedback when a critical debuff occurs.


A1.3 RvR bugs
1. The pet suffers maximum duration crowd control regardless of resistances or fall off from AoE.

2. Players can score 100% crits on our pets, and the pets take more spell damage than a player equal to the necro in level.

3. The pet takes 26% more spell damage than a level 50 player, 13% more than a level 44 player(the same level as the pet.)

4. The pet is affected by confuse. This is unacceptable since the pet is the necromancer, not merely a companion.

5. The pet can not be stopped from swinging at an enemy after processing a spell, not even in passive mode. This means that melee and stealth classes can use reactive styles against the pet, even though we have commanded it not to melee with the target.

6. The pet can be taunted or aggroed with damage like a mob and cannot be forced to stay on the selected opponent.

7. Any debuff cast on our pet interrupts us. This does not apply to any other class in the game.

8. When the pet has two spells in the queue and the first is interrupted, the pet will still attempt to cast the second spell but it will be automatically interrupted even if the source of the interruption is gone.

[Anywyn]

Ah spe ne ho dimenticato un altro ...

- se il bersaglio non e' visibile il pet continua a castare cmq (pur non colpendo) e il mana va giu che e' un piacere :madd:
-inoltre .. se si sta castando e si switcha il pet da DIFESA a PASSIVO il cast non va a segno :gha:

[Lars]

Ottimo riassunto Lars ... cmq la versione inglese riporta il 99,9% dei fastidiosissimi bug o problemi che il necro ha da una vita e che lo rendono un pg adatto solo al powerlevel ...e cmq anche in exp richiede parecchia attenzione dato ke il pet spesso e volentieri fa che cazzo gli pare.
Le cose che + mi infastidiscono sono:
-il degrado a dir poco allucinante dell'intero equip.
-il non poter usare pozze o oggetti (anche durante le quest) quando si e' in shade.
-la stupidita e la lentezza di reazione del pet.
-l'inutilita o la poca efficacia del 80% delle spell (a parte il mana tap e lo shade tap il resto funziona poco e mal)
-il quick cast ke se usato in melee viene sistematicamente bruciato dal pet.


Per me manco ci pensano a fixare tutta sta montagna di problemi ... sembra quasi che sta classe non esista :gha:


hehe anche a me rompono particolarmente ste cose ...
notiamo bene che se si degrada l'equip spellcraftato o le staffe , si puo' anche passarci sopra .... ma i cazzi cominciano quando si degrada un artefatto !!!
la stupidita' e la lentezza di reazione farebbero inkazzare ghandi :D


la vera domanda e' : PERCHE' CONTINUO AD USARE IL NECRO ??

notiamo bene che come ho fatto su vorti basterebbe powwarsi un altro pg che da + soddisfazioni e usare il necro solo per pve e farmare scroll ( come fanno tutti ) ...
ma il necro continua imo a avere un suo fascino , forse dato proprio dalla difficolta' nell'usarlo ( anche solo per bypassare i mille mila bug che lo affliggono ) ...

per sopravvivere a uno scontro di medie-grosse dimensioni bisogna sapere sfruttare al max la situazione ( nn potendo in pratica contare su RA/ML/Artefatti .. tutte cose che "danno una chance in + " ) :
sia come posizionamento ( sempre al limite dei 1500 dal nostro target :D mai avvicinarsi troppo che se si viene targettati noi nn abbiamo praticamente possibilita' di sopravvivere )
sia come target ( pd facciamo danno spirituale che ormai cani e porci hanno max come res ... ergo abbimao penalita' assurde contro chiunque mm sia niubbo ) : o scegli target di basso lv reame ( con presumibile equip schifoso ) o per forza vai su curatori/maghi o in assist ( cosa che alla fine si fa il 90% delle volte ) contro un qualsiasi altro bersaglio.
Senza contare che se nn giri di gilda , di certo i party occasionali nn ti gruppano , quindi sei sempre da solo a leechare ( cosa che per altro fa egregiamente .. almeno questo si' )

bah speriamo che la situazione migliori ...

[Lars]

Ah spe ne ho dimenticato un altro ...

- se il bersaglio non e' visibile il pet continua a castare cmq (pur non colpendo) e il mana va giu che e' un piacere :madd:



La cosa + bella e' che gli spell sono anche piuttosto esosi :D ...quindi se nella concitazioni premi troppe volte lo spell ti trovi in men che nn si dica senza mana lol